I love your intentions, Michael Moore, but I fear that you (like many others), treat Netanyahu as an aberration of zionist Israel rather than its epitome. What he does is the same in essence as what Benny Gantz would do. Trump may be America's Netanyahu but Harris is its Benny Gantz. Trump is a grim, foaming-at-the-mouth fascist; Harris -- who loves how our military is the most lethal in the world and who pledges draconian anti-immigrant measures at the southern border -- is fun, friendly fascist. She, Biden, Sanders, and even AOC are all in the bag for Israel. I hate to be oppositional to you, Michael Moore, whose dedication and track record (to say nothing of talent) for fighting for justice totally dwarf mine, but I think you are putting too much confidence in the Democrats.
I agree that a baby that’s 9 or 12 months old is innocent in the sense of capacity to inflict serious physical harm if they’re upset. These two Bibies are rooted in an emotional mindset that is infantile in its nature. I just like the sound of by-by to two Bibi babies.
Michael, please consider a conversation about the difference between Zionism and Judaism. Judaism, like Islam, is a beautiful path towards the Truth.
Movie-lover Mike -- please go back to a movie from the early 80s -- The Chosen. Rod Steiger, Maximilian Schell, Robbie Benson... NYC after WWII -- Two Brooklyn Jewish communities -- orthodox and secular/Zionist.
The line that has always stayed with me: "You Zionists are WORSE than Nazis. Hitler destroyed the Jewish body, but YOU are destroying the Jewish soul."
Agree with most all that you say today with two exceptions and thanks for your honest assessment of Michigan and what we can do to offset the lost votes there. First item that Bibi did all this in order to destroy Gaza, possibly but being the sociopath he is, he did this to save Bibi. Second and more serious disagreement that we will not be drawn into war with Iran? Wishful thinking Michael, even if Biden and his team wanted to avoid that, fear of the criticism from the GOP for not supporting Israel against the “ worlds greatest sponsor of terrorism” would easily encourage our entry in such a war. Finally here’s a suggestion of how to get the vote out in Michigan: donate to every Dem congressional and Senate candidate in Michigan, their turnout will help Harris.
You make a good point here. The GOP would have a field day if the Biden administration wavered even a tiny bit in its support for Israel. What concerns me most is that many commenters here, are enraged at the suggestion by Michael, that the US is somehow complicit in the actions of the IDF and the Netanyahu government. It echoes the sentiments of those who said, "My country right or wrong" during the Vietnam War. On one hand, we are reminded daily by the media about the horrors of the bombings of civilians in Gaza and now in Lebanon. Then there is opposite view of the horrors endured by Israelis on October 7th. Kind of tough to navigate this dichotomy. Instead of solutions, we have the choice of taking a side or constantly being whipsawed as we listen and watch in horror of both. There is no right or wrong in situations like this, there is diplomacy or lack of diplomacy and their is applied pressure based on fiscal issues or a lack of constraint and the setting of boundaries. So many stakeholders that it hard to process. Iran is petrified that Israel will find an excuse to destroy their nuclear program, which gives them tremendous leverage in a military escalation that they do not have the resources to win. The Saudis and others want to normalize relationships with Israel to prevent Iran from becoming the dominant voice in the Middle East. And on and on, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups are running a "business" based on terror. And on and on down the line with endless conflict as the result.
Emotional reactions aside, it’s logically inescapable to conclude that by its actions and inactions the Biden administration is completely complicit in the actions of the Netanyahu government. What I find puzzling is how those who totally support Israe fail to see the harm Bibi is doing to Israel both long and short term: the economy is suffering, tourism is a lost deal, there is a reported brain drain, etc. Enabling Bibi is actually not supporting Israel IMO.
Mike -- I am what religious Jews call a "Noahide." A non-Jew on the path to conversion to Judaism.
Please fact-check whatever I say. October 7, 2023 was a Saturday -- a shabbat.
But not just any shabbat -- an EXTREMELY special one called Simchas Torah.
As one who "tuned into" religious Zionists, in the weeks prior to the attack, I heard broadcasts from them screaming bloody murder about the Nova Rave Music Festival. What they could not absorb or tolerate was the plan to erect a large statue of the Buddha at the festival -- held on that special shabbat. When I say "screaming bloody murder," I am not exaggerating.
To the religious right-wingers, the people attending that festival were "lefties" .. Peaceniks ... gays... from Tel Aviv. And the peaceniks in the kibbutzim were hated too.
If you consider the accuracy of this, it helps to explain the reasoning behind the decisions.
I wonder how you would feel if it was your family slaughtered, decapitates or maimed. What would you do? I doubt you would turn the other cheek if these people meant to annihilate your citizens
Indeed, Margie, I keep saying this and it falls on deaf ears, including HERE. It is as if a few more dead Jews do not matter to the world...as long as it fits their narrative, that is all that seems to matter. I say this on 10/7.
It looks like the Israelis made the same direction mistake by voting in Bibi as the U.S. did in 2016. He absolutely has scorched earth policy when it comes to war. Trump, however, would have the same ferocity with his fellow Americans (and does).
A few questions: (1) who are the party hacks that Michael mentions that are allowing Michigan to potentially slip away?
(2) Harris is running a flawless campaign on just about every other issue. Starting at not letting Palestinian voices be heard at the Dem National Convention, and ending with not being more forceful about the situation in the Middle East, what is the calculation by her campaign to not address the genocidal policy toward Palestinians in Gaza, the non-combatants in Lebanon , and the policy of apartheid that continues relentlessly on Arabs living in the West Bank, other than making the statement that we support the people of Israel and their right to exist but feel that the carnage from Israel on Palestinians in Gaza, the merciless bombings of innocent civilians in Lebanon, and the threat of a larger war with Iran must stop. Harris is very articulate on other topics such as a woman's reproductive rights, but seems to be walking a very thin tightrope on her policy toward Israel?
(3) Why has the Harris campaign turned a deaf ear to the situation among Palestinians in Michigan that threatens yet another loss by a national candidate for President of a crucial swing state? What is the calculation by the Harris campaign?
I am a Jew and am finding myself between a rock and hard place on my support of Israel and my horror at the policies of the Israeli government. The current Israeli government and the current state of Israel are not those represented in the movie Exodus. They are more representative of the Nazi extermination of the Jews and the current calls for deportation of 10 million illegal immigrants by Donald Trump and his MAGA cronies.
I have disagreed with Michael on several major issues. One, was his call for Biden to drop out of the race -- I was proved wrong. Second, his call for the US to stop funding the war in Gaza -- I was wrong again, as I now see the Netanyahu has adopted a scorched earth policy not only in Gaza, but now on Lebanon, using the same tactics to clear Gaza and the border area with Lebanon, killing thousands of innocent civilians. But the hard truth, difficult for me to accept, is that a majority of Israelis, despite the massive demonstrations in Israel against these policies, support them. Not only will Israelis suffer the long-term consequences of a dictator and his desire for self-preservation and the lack of security and peace, they will isolate themselves from the rest of the world, and bring anti-Semitism to a level that will put Jews in harm's way all over the planet.
In discussion with friends who do a lot of world travel, we often list the growing number of countries it is not safe for Jews to visit or to live in. It is up to American Jews to begin to fight back against the right-wing lobbyists [notably the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the leading organization speaking on behalf of a coalition of pro-Israel American Jewish groups] in this country who promote this policy of genocide and apartheid and to join with a majority of Israelis in forcing our government [are you listening Biden and Harris?] to conditionalize the funding by the US.
My last question is to Michael or anyone else who might know the answer, what are the detailed politics that go on behind the scenes that allow this policy and genocide to continue when a majority of Americans oppose it? At the very heart of the controversy are the complex politics of the many stakeholders in the Middle East and the consequences of (1) doing nothing, (2) making half-hearted, weak attempts to influence Israeli policy and military actions, and (3) actually making conditional the ongoing funds that currently allow the Israelis to these policies to continue?
Michael makes a compelling argument in support of Palestinian Americans in Michigan deciding not to vote for President based on their horror at the killing and maiming of their friends and family members and the continuing destruction of personal property. To his credit, Michael does offer a solution for the Harris campaign -- get the millions of non-voters in Michigan to vote to make up for the loss.
I never in my life thought that I would see not only the government in power but the Israeli people complicit in supporting a policy of genocide and apartheid. I never thought I would see Palestinians. [understanding that the enemy also is Iran and the terrorist groups that it supports that are criminals], as the victims. I feel now, as I did during the Vietnam War, the tortured belief in our Republic and our democratic values in conflict with my belief that the Palestinians should be allowed self-determination. But as I have said, just as the Israeli people are complicit, the Palestinian people bear some responsibility for allowing Hamas and Hezbollah to thrive and control the narrative.
The Harris campaign and most political analysts think that she would on net lose way more votes by suggesting a tougher approach to Israel than she does by staying the course Biden has set.
The Uncommitted leaders said they will not endorse Harris but will vote for her and encouraged their followers to do what it takes to ensure Trump does not win. It is effectively an endorsement despite protestations otherwise. The Uncommitted leaders swung for the fences and whiffed. Can't blame them for trying. But they apparently are not fools and can make a rational decision about where their best interest lie.
Today NBC news reports: "A group of imams endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris in an open letter shared first with NBC News on Sunday, a critical boost as she steps up her efforts to win back disaffected Muslim voters amid the Israel-Hamas war. ....
The 25 Islamic religious leaders who signed the letter, which comes a year after the Oct. 7 terrorist attack that sparked the war, argue that Muslim voters have a duty to think logically about their voting decisions and that backing Harris “far outweighs the harms of the other options."
I would say that Harris's positioning on Israel and Gaza has been astute and is the minimally damaging position for her.
Netanyanu and some political parties, Israel companies and those that want to steal more of the West Bank from Palestinians benefit from the Gazan War. Given that fact, look into the evidence that they told some of the military to "stand down" and leave their positions and let Hamas walk through the border (I just realized Michael Moore wrote this in the article, thank you Michael! Now Michael, look into the falshoods of the Ukraine war which was really triggered by NATO encroaching on Russia). Israel gives Hamas money. This was a coordinated attack that (some) Israelis wanted. For example, those Israelis that want a wider war so that they can take more of the West Bank would be behind all this.
Thanks Cadence. What disturbs me most is how deeply Netanyahu/Israel's right-wing are driving to not have a two-state solution for Israelis and Palestinians. I knew about the "settlers" and I knew about Netanyahu giving the money for Hamas' continued existence. I didn't realize how he was doing it -- it was through other governments. It was all so inhumanly calculated.
Powerful messaging. I like the historical context.
Likewise
I recieved a photo w/ a brief message on my phone today. I don't know the sender
The photo had a caption; "This is Atlanta Now."
The photo was 2 strong looking white men paddling a canoe through horrific flooding. Cars around them were mostly underwater. Written on the ohoto was this:
"Last week FEMA announced a nearly 9 Billion $ shortfall for Hurricane Helene recovery efforts. On the same day Israel announced it was recieving 8.7$ billion in military funding from the US."
Thank you for breaking through on this individual's ignorance on Israel's right-wing and the right-wing in the U.S. Even though I read and listened to what happened on the Hamas massacre of innocent Israelis living in the kibbutzim and at the music festival on October 7th. The true motivation that Netanyahu has; the right wing in Israel and here; their inhuman look at Palestinian people: men, women and babies. more than 40,000 Palestinian women, babies and elderly massacred. You broke through on my ignorance to what is truly happening: on who built the tunnels, the phrase "from the river to the sea"-where that phrase came from, the sky-diving, the no-protection on the boarders, the no response by the police or IDF after the massacres and on and on...
100%. However; I would say that Bibi's priority is, like Trump, staying in power and out of jail.
Well said Cathy
I love your intentions, Michael Moore, but I fear that you (like many others), treat Netanyahu as an aberration of zionist Israel rather than its epitome. What he does is the same in essence as what Benny Gantz would do. Trump may be America's Netanyahu but Harris is its Benny Gantz. Trump is a grim, foaming-at-the-mouth fascist; Harris -- who loves how our military is the most lethal in the world and who pledges draconian anti-immigrant measures at the southern border -- is fun, friendly fascist. She, Biden, Sanders, and even AOC are all in the bag for Israel. I hate to be oppositional to you, Michael Moore, whose dedication and track record (to say nothing of talent) for fighting for justice totally dwarf mine, but I think you are putting too much confidence in the Democrats.
Read my post today. It's worse than you think. The Republicans and Democrats are actually conspiring together and we are all the victims.
I am a liberal. You are the left's answer to the tea party. Get a grip.
Byby to Bibi 1& 2. Babies with war toys.
Babies are innocent.
Those two are more like naughty, naughty man-bear-pig-monkeys with advanced weaponry and poopypants.
Evil is different from naughty...
I agree that a baby that’s 9 or 12 months old is innocent in the sense of capacity to inflict serious physical harm if they’re upset. These two Bibies are rooted in an emotional mindset that is infantile in its nature. I just like the sound of by-by to two Bibi babies.
Michael, please consider a conversation about the difference between Zionism and Judaism. Judaism, like Islam, is a beautiful path towards the Truth.
Movie-lover Mike -- please go back to a movie from the early 80s -- The Chosen. Rod Steiger, Maximilian Schell, Robbie Benson... NYC after WWII -- Two Brooklyn Jewish communities -- orthodox and secular/Zionist.
The line that has always stayed with me: "You Zionists are WORSE than Nazis. Hitler destroyed the Jewish body, but YOU are destroying the Jewish soul."
Huh?
Agree with most all that you say today with two exceptions and thanks for your honest assessment of Michigan and what we can do to offset the lost votes there. First item that Bibi did all this in order to destroy Gaza, possibly but being the sociopath he is, he did this to save Bibi. Second and more serious disagreement that we will not be drawn into war with Iran? Wishful thinking Michael, even if Biden and his team wanted to avoid that, fear of the criticism from the GOP for not supporting Israel against the “ worlds greatest sponsor of terrorism” would easily encourage our entry in such a war. Finally here’s a suggestion of how to get the vote out in Michigan: donate to every Dem congressional and Senate candidate in Michigan, their turnout will help Harris.
You make a good point here. The GOP would have a field day if the Biden administration wavered even a tiny bit in its support for Israel. What concerns me most is that many commenters here, are enraged at the suggestion by Michael, that the US is somehow complicit in the actions of the IDF and the Netanyahu government. It echoes the sentiments of those who said, "My country right or wrong" during the Vietnam War. On one hand, we are reminded daily by the media about the horrors of the bombings of civilians in Gaza and now in Lebanon. Then there is opposite view of the horrors endured by Israelis on October 7th. Kind of tough to navigate this dichotomy. Instead of solutions, we have the choice of taking a side or constantly being whipsawed as we listen and watch in horror of both. There is no right or wrong in situations like this, there is diplomacy or lack of diplomacy and their is applied pressure based on fiscal issues or a lack of constraint and the setting of boundaries. So many stakeholders that it hard to process. Iran is petrified that Israel will find an excuse to destroy their nuclear program, which gives them tremendous leverage in a military escalation that they do not have the resources to win. The Saudis and others want to normalize relationships with Israel to prevent Iran from becoming the dominant voice in the Middle East. And on and on, Hamas, Hezbollah, and other terrorist groups are running a "business" based on terror. And on and on down the line with endless conflict as the result.
Emotional reactions aside, it’s logically inescapable to conclude that by its actions and inactions the Biden administration is completely complicit in the actions of the Netanyahu government. What I find puzzling is how those who totally support Israe fail to see the harm Bibi is doing to Israel both long and short term: the economy is suffering, tourism is a lost deal, there is a reported brain drain, etc. Enabling Bibi is actually not supporting Israel IMO.
Mike -- I am what religious Jews call a "Noahide." A non-Jew on the path to conversion to Judaism.
Please fact-check whatever I say. October 7, 2023 was a Saturday -- a shabbat.
But not just any shabbat -- an EXTREMELY special one called Simchas Torah.
As one who "tuned into" religious Zionists, in the weeks prior to the attack, I heard broadcasts from them screaming bloody murder about the Nova Rave Music Festival. What they could not absorb or tolerate was the plan to erect a large statue of the Buddha at the festival -- held on that special shabbat. When I say "screaming bloody murder," I am not exaggerating.
To the religious right-wingers, the people attending that festival were "lefties" .. Peaceniks ... gays... from Tel Aviv. And the peaceniks in the kibbutzim were hated too.
If you consider the accuracy of this, it helps to explain the reasoning behind the decisions.
Huh?
I wonder how you would feel if it was your family slaughtered, decapitates or maimed. What would you do? I doubt you would turn the other cheek if these people meant to annihilate your citizens
Indeed, Margie, I keep saying this and it falls on deaf ears, including HERE. It is as if a few more dead Jews do not matter to the world...as long as it fits their narrative, that is all that seems to matter. I say this on 10/7.
I wonder what mike would have said to Poland in 1939?
Trump and Bibi are just two Fellow Fascists sharing a bed, sleeping with another, trading poisonous spit.
It looks like the Israelis made the same direction mistake by voting in Bibi as the U.S. did in 2016. He absolutely has scorched earth policy when it comes to war. Trump, however, would have the same ferocity with his fellow Americans (and does).
A few questions: (1) who are the party hacks that Michael mentions that are allowing Michigan to potentially slip away?
(2) Harris is running a flawless campaign on just about every other issue. Starting at not letting Palestinian voices be heard at the Dem National Convention, and ending with not being more forceful about the situation in the Middle East, what is the calculation by her campaign to not address the genocidal policy toward Palestinians in Gaza, the non-combatants in Lebanon , and the policy of apartheid that continues relentlessly on Arabs living in the West Bank, other than making the statement that we support the people of Israel and their right to exist but feel that the carnage from Israel on Palestinians in Gaza, the merciless bombings of innocent civilians in Lebanon, and the threat of a larger war with Iran must stop. Harris is very articulate on other topics such as a woman's reproductive rights, but seems to be walking a very thin tightrope on her policy toward Israel?
(3) Why has the Harris campaign turned a deaf ear to the situation among Palestinians in Michigan that threatens yet another loss by a national candidate for President of a crucial swing state? What is the calculation by the Harris campaign?
I am a Jew and am finding myself between a rock and hard place on my support of Israel and my horror at the policies of the Israeli government. The current Israeli government and the current state of Israel are not those represented in the movie Exodus. They are more representative of the Nazi extermination of the Jews and the current calls for deportation of 10 million illegal immigrants by Donald Trump and his MAGA cronies.
I have disagreed with Michael on several major issues. One, was his call for Biden to drop out of the race -- I was proved wrong. Second, his call for the US to stop funding the war in Gaza -- I was wrong again, as I now see the Netanyahu has adopted a scorched earth policy not only in Gaza, but now on Lebanon, using the same tactics to clear Gaza and the border area with Lebanon, killing thousands of innocent civilians. But the hard truth, difficult for me to accept, is that a majority of Israelis, despite the massive demonstrations in Israel against these policies, support them. Not only will Israelis suffer the long-term consequences of a dictator and his desire for self-preservation and the lack of security and peace, they will isolate themselves from the rest of the world, and bring anti-Semitism to a level that will put Jews in harm's way all over the planet.
In discussion with friends who do a lot of world travel, we often list the growing number of countries it is not safe for Jews to visit or to live in. It is up to American Jews to begin to fight back against the right-wing lobbyists [notably the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), the leading organization speaking on behalf of a coalition of pro-Israel American Jewish groups] in this country who promote this policy of genocide and apartheid and to join with a majority of Israelis in forcing our government [are you listening Biden and Harris?] to conditionalize the funding by the US.
My last question is to Michael or anyone else who might know the answer, what are the detailed politics that go on behind the scenes that allow this policy and genocide to continue when a majority of Americans oppose it? At the very heart of the controversy are the complex politics of the many stakeholders in the Middle East and the consequences of (1) doing nothing, (2) making half-hearted, weak attempts to influence Israeli policy and military actions, and (3) actually making conditional the ongoing funds that currently allow the Israelis to these policies to continue?
Michael makes a compelling argument in support of Palestinian Americans in Michigan deciding not to vote for President based on their horror at the killing and maiming of their friends and family members and the continuing destruction of personal property. To his credit, Michael does offer a solution for the Harris campaign -- get the millions of non-voters in Michigan to vote to make up for the loss.
I never in my life thought that I would see not only the government in power but the Israeli people complicit in supporting a policy of genocide and apartheid. I never thought I would see Palestinians. [understanding that the enemy also is Iran and the terrorist groups that it supports that are criminals], as the victims. I feel now, as I did during the Vietnam War, the tortured belief in our Republic and our democratic values in conflict with my belief that the Palestinians should be allowed self-determination. But as I have said, just as the Israeli people are complicit, the Palestinian people bear some responsibility for allowing Hamas and Hezbollah to thrive and control the narrative.
The Harris campaign and most political analysts think that she would on net lose way more votes by suggesting a tougher approach to Israel than she does by staying the course Biden has set.
The Uncommitted leaders said they will not endorse Harris but will vote for her and encouraged their followers to do what it takes to ensure Trump does not win. It is effectively an endorsement despite protestations otherwise. The Uncommitted leaders swung for the fences and whiffed. Can't blame them for trying. But they apparently are not fools and can make a rational decision about where their best interest lie.
Today NBC news reports: "A group of imams endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris in an open letter shared first with NBC News on Sunday, a critical boost as she steps up her efforts to win back disaffected Muslim voters amid the Israel-Hamas war. ....
The 25 Islamic religious leaders who signed the letter, which comes a year after the Oct. 7 terrorist attack that sparked the war, argue that Muslim voters have a duty to think logically about their voting decisions and that backing Harris “far outweighs the harms of the other options."
I would say that Harris's positioning on Israel and Gaza has been astute and is the minimally damaging position for her.
Netanyanu and some political parties, Israel companies and those that want to steal more of the West Bank from Palestinians benefit from the Gazan War. Given that fact, look into the evidence that they told some of the military to "stand down" and leave their positions and let Hamas walk through the border (I just realized Michael Moore wrote this in the article, thank you Michael! Now Michael, look into the falshoods of the Ukraine war which was really triggered by NATO encroaching on Russia). Israel gives Hamas money. This was a coordinated attack that (some) Israelis wanted. For example, those Israelis that want a wider war so that they can take more of the West Bank would be behind all this.
Michael, don't fall into the Populist 'easy answers to complex issues' yourself. It's not that easy.
Thanks Cadence. What disturbs me most is how deeply Netanyahu/Israel's right-wing are driving to not have a two-state solution for Israelis and Palestinians. I knew about the "settlers" and I knew about Netanyahu giving the money for Hamas' continued existence. I didn't realize how he was doing it -- it was through other governments. It was all so inhumanly calculated.
An election is like a snapshot. Consider the photos you have seen of yourself, ever blinked?
Harris is gonna blink. By the time we get to the point of taking the picture, there will be more and more asking, Why?
Powerful messaging. I like the historical context.
Likewise
I recieved a photo w/ a brief message on my phone today. I don't know the sender
The photo had a caption; "This is Atlanta Now."
The photo was 2 strong looking white men paddling a canoe through horrific flooding. Cars around them were mostly underwater. Written on the ohoto was this:
"Last week FEMA announced a nearly 9 Billion $ shortfall for Hurricane Helene recovery efforts. On the same day Israel announced it was recieving 8.7$ billion in military funding from the US."
Source: Turn Left
Thank you for breaking through on this individual's ignorance on Israel's right-wing and the right-wing in the U.S. Even though I read and listened to what happened on the Hamas massacre of innocent Israelis living in the kibbutzim and at the music festival on October 7th. The true motivation that Netanyahu has; the right wing in Israel and here; their inhuman look at Palestinian people: men, women and babies. more than 40,000 Palestinian women, babies and elderly massacred. You broke through on my ignorance to what is truly happening: on who built the tunnels, the phrase "from the river to the sea"-where that phrase came from, the sky-diving, the no-protection on the boarders, the no response by the police or IDF after the massacres and on and on...