The problem is the cash starved media - they are once again, as in 2016, giving the goof free publicity.
Not only that, they are delivering a load of bullshit to the public while sidestepping their duty - omitting a whole lot in their reporting - the sins of omission.
I follow emptywheel.net, have done for 8 years - in depth reporting. Boring for a lot of people, but it is there where you will find what media is not reporting, where media's shortcoming is exposed, and their "both sides" bullshit in particular.
As for the former guy and his conviction - a jury found him guilty. It's only news because Americans somehow believe their Presidents and formers are holy cows. They aren't in anywhere but America.
Take a look around the world - former leaders have been charged and convicted of crimes.
Sarcozy comes to mind off hand., there's plenty more. Netanyahu is facing charges, nothing to do with the current crisis.
So, America is a young country, perhaps it is going through growing pains - or perhaps it's lost it's way altogether, stumbling, out of touch with it's founding aspiration.
that website emptywheel.net had it wrong on Russiagate - read what Matt Taibbi on substack says about Russiagate to get the truth. I'm a liberal saying this. And Matt is too.
What was anyone's first clue (it was mine) about the "dossier"?
The very needless salacious content. It appealed to what Russia believed would raise American hackles. It's rather comical actually. - but points to the producer nevertheless - Russia. America got fucked over 10 ways from Sunday. Does anyone really want to argue the fact? What came from that though, cannot be discounted. The Mueller Report (well worth the read when time permits, I grabbed it for 10 US bucks at Target), many charges and convictions. A very dry but compelling inside look and warning.
the Mueller report showed Russiagate to be lacking in anything serious, and that Trump was right that Russiagate was an exaggerated / fake attack on him. I'm a liberal saying this. Doesn't make a difference if you read it if you don't have the surrounding historical context to understand it. That's why you need to read indpendent journalists take on the report.
Read what I stated again, from the beginning. Sentence 1 and 2.
"Media stars" are the problem. The Tucker Carlsons, the Matt Taibbis. The Pulitzer prize winning WAPO - not what it was is it? The NYT with it's Maggie Haberman type "insiders". They are favoured for a reason.
I've never seen a comment on Emptywheel from Matt Taibbi - he hasn't got the guts to go there.
instead of reading what you think is right, try reading what I think is correct,
namely Matt Taibbi and Michael Shellenberger. Look at Russiagate and the latest Trump conviction and how Nato attempt to convert Ukraine to a Nato country triggered Putin to invade Ukraine. If you immediatley say Ukraine has a right to join Nato then you are not trying hard enough to find the right info.
no, Putin said if we put Nato on his border then that was a red line because 3 times foreign armies attacked Russia through Ukraine (Napolean, World War 1 and 2). You are a lightweight and I shouldn't be wasting my time but maybe someone else will read this and learn.
I'm not trying to win in an argument with you Jeff. I just want you to expand your knowledge, and if I've come across as aggressive in that it's only because I care about what you think about this. Each drop in the ocean makes an ocean.
No, Ukraine isn't now and never was going to be admitted into NATO - look at the latest members accepted - it wasn't a shoe in for them.
You've bought Putin's bullshit excuse for invading Ukraine, a red herring that no one with any knowledge of Ukraine and history buys.
What tipped the invader was Ukraine's aspiration to join the European Union.
The previous president of Ukraine reneged on his promise to the electorate to join the EU under Putin's pressure - that tipped the EuroMaidan protests, and here we are today. Why do you think Putin invaded Ukraine? It was his last kick at the can bud.
Thanks Mike for your words and yeah we must keep our sense of humor. We all love clowns but this one is dangerous. How can I believe in a country that lets a convicted felon run for president?
Thanks Mike. All I can say is "stupid is a stupid does". How someone soooo stupid got to be president (of course - the backlash to having a black man for president) in the first place is beyond this woman's comprehension. May they all be defeated at the ballot box. 12 jurors did what Republican senators refused to do. I visualize sticking a pin in all of them - and watching them deflate to nothing.
But division is their game and we must stand united - for democracy and our better angels....and a world where NO ONE fears for their life for any reason.
As a native New Yorker, I can testify to the sad accuracy of Michael's informative mini-bio of the Trump crime family. We grew up with daily reports of mafia and gang activities (... "the paper holds their folded faces to the floor/ and every day the paper boy brings more ..."). Among my neighbors, there was an unhealthy, obsession with Donnie's arc of "success" and romantic conquests - with endless sequels. He was simultaneously a joke and a member of an elite class we would never share. Not much has changed - except the joke is now on us.
Thanks Michael for the respite from wanting to curl up in a ball. Mitch McConnell's op-ed in the NY Times today just about sent me over the edge, saying we need to avoid the mistakes of 1930s Germany, while he didn't stop and still supports Frankenstein's Monster. I was trying to explain to my teenage son what living through the 80s in proximity to NYC and Donald Trump was like. I also had him Google "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" with Robin Leach, which sent him into fits of laughter. But we all need to band together and vote for Joe Biden - and NO, I don't want to hear about voting for a 3rd party candidate who, if they'd like to create a viable platform, needs to start the work a good decade from the ground up before they plan to run. Like it or not, mathematically, only one of two people is going to be President, Joe Biden or Donald Trump. You may not love everything Joe Biden does, but he is decent, kind, and empathetic. Even under terrible circumstances, President Biden tries to do the right thing, and he certainly stands up for the Rule of Law and the dignity of the Office of the President. The other is evil and a danger to the very foundation of our nation. VOTE and get your friends to vote like our lives depend on it, because they very well may.
Great podcast about Trump’s verdict and crime history. But your continued anti-Biden / Gaza War Stance are leaving the Trump presidency doors open. Protest if you must. But promote votes for Biden. Or we make Gaza and Russia worse with a Trump presidency.
I agree with you and others of Bibi's criminal actions. What I don't understand is why you give Hamas a free pass. Hamas used international aid to build a web of tunnels under the city. They started a war without stocking food and medical supplies in these tunnels many of which connect under schools and hospitals. In all the pictures that I have seen, there is not one woman with a strand of hair showing, or an elbow, much less an ankle while the men wear tee shirts. The large population of children suggests that there is no reproductive choice, as every country where women have a choice have fewer children. Women were terrorized in Gaza long before Israel attacked.
Maybe when Trump worked for NBC, it would have made sense to hide his Stormy affair, but time has proven that running for president is different. The voters don't care about affairs or anything sleezy he does.
I'm a liberal - but from what I read, the charges that lead to a conviction against trump have not been prosecuted in NY before. And then there was something about the jury not needing to be unanimous? can someone else fill in the details? I think this was a political prosecution that would never have been applied to any other politician. What about all the lies regarding hunter biden's laptop? wasn't that worse that what Trump did with Stormy Daniels? Because hiding that had a far larger impact on the election. And again, I'm a liberal saying this. Does any one else agree?
if we let them, they will injure and kill us with mrna bird flu vaccines and ruin the economy by printing money until we are too poor to respond effectively.
There have been many prosecutions of falsifying business records in NY and the jury had to be unanimous on those. What made these felonies is that they were falsified to cover up another crime. The jury did not have to be unanimous in their conclusions of the other crimes. The other crimes were the unlawful means Trump used to interfere in the election. The law is the law and that part was not up for debate by the jury. To understand this better, sign up for Civil Discourse by Joyce Vance, also on Substack. What about Hunter’s laptop? There’s no evidence of any crime on there. And what on his laptop is more disgusting than Trump cheating on his wife with sex workers while she is pregnant/nursing?
you are saying falsifying business records ... for political gain or just financial gain?
Others have said that this type of prosecution against Trump has not been done for any other politician except Trump. Am I right?
All sorts of former intelligence officials said the laptop was Russian disninformation, but it wasn't. That was intentional lying/ interference by former government officials.
quoting from internet:
Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say
More than 50 former intelligence officials signed a letter casting doubt on the provenance of a New York Post story on the former vice president’s son.By NATASHA BERTRAND
10/19/2020 10:30 PM EDT
More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letter outlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”
The letter, signed on Monday, centers around a batch of documents released by the New York Post last week that purport to tie the Democratic nominee to his son Hunter’s business dealings. Under the banner headline “Biden Secret E-mails,” the Post reported it was given a copy of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drive by President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who said he got it from a Mac shop owner in Delaware who also alerted the FBI.
I never brought up “mainstream media”. As a reminder, we were discussing the lack of evidence for any crimes committed by Joe Biden. From any media source at all. It sounds like you aren’t going to be happy with anything I say. My last word is my final recommendation- Heather Cox Richardson, Letters from an American. You will love her- all of her letters are backed up by real sources. Good day to you!
I'm a liberal who went door to door campaigning for both Hillary and Elizabeth Warren (no lie, I have emails and documents to prove it), Heather Cox Richardson might be an interesting read, but is she addressing legitimate criticisms of the prosecution of Donald Trump? I doubt it from what little I have read. I'm sure the part you are missing are facts that only independent media can give you. It takes a while to absorb it but it can be done. Start with all the terrible Covid policies, the Ukraine war that was triggered by NATO and the fact that the USA has huge leverage over Israel to stop the Gaza war. Throw in the terrible printing of money (look at a graph of USA deby by year, 30+ trillion) and then maybe you will be angry as I am.
we are being hurt by monopolistic companies and corrupted politicians, I notice you just want to focus on mainstream saying there is no crimes by Joe Biden while I'm trying to give you the big picture of corruption. How about this, Biden pushing the Iraq war and the Ukraine War are crimes. Are hundreds of thousands dead a big enough crime to convince you? Add to that his lack of trying to stop the Gaza War (don't even try to say he did try to stop it, the USA has huge leverage over Israel with the weapons we *give* them). Do you agree?
He falsified them for political gain and that is election interference. I don’t know how many people have committed this crime but they should all be prosecuted. So who is responsible for the intelligence officers sharing their concerns about the computer story being disinformation? Don’t forget who was president in 2020. Not Joe Biden.
so Hunter's business dealing were hidden from the American people by lies of government officials,
how does that compare to paying off a mistress to be quiet? I say the mistriss payment is small potatos. Whereas the business dealings with Ukraine and Hunter are worse since they might have a (maybe small) *negative* role in the Ukraine war.
the mainstream media message for many months if if not years, was the laptop was russian disinfo, what are you talking about? there are (at least) potential crimes on it, that isn't election interference?
Again, there has been no crime committed by Joe Biden. I also encourage you to subscribe to The Status Quo by Jay Kuo. A lot of confusion can be cleared up with legitimate news sources.
biden was a huge proponent of the Iraq war, and now the Ukraine war which was triggered by *Nato* trying to convert Ukraine to a Nato member. Please look up and understand that last sentence. It is important. Listen to Iraq War hero Gen. Douglas MacGregor, a USA tank commander in the first Iraq gulf war. He says *NATO* triggered the Ukraine war by pushing up against Russias border - Nato should *not* have done that. the many warmongers in the USA profited handsomely in all these wars that they *wanted*. Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine etc.
Rubenfeld is a law professor and does not work for the Trump campaign. He is most famous for his liberal positions on issues like affirmative action and same-sex marriage. And Rubenfeld stressed that he wasn’t giving advice but rather explaining the constitutional issues at stake
Rosenfeld expressed concern over three potential violations of the Constitution by the New York state court. First, a felony conviction could cause “irreparable harm” to Trump and his effort to become president. Second, it could have been a case of “selective prosecution” by Bragg, who campaigned on convicting Trump. Third, the court may have violated Trump’s Sixth Amendment rights, which is that the accused must know what they are being accused of.
Most people are familiar with the selective prosecution argument.
“The whole point of the prosecution, people say, is to undermine Trump's chances of being president,” notes Rubenfeld. “Well, if that's true, does that make the prosecution unconstitutional? Yes, it would. That's called, in legal terms, selective prosecution. The state cannot come after you with a criminal prosecution because of hostility toward or in retaliation against your political activity. That's unconstitutional. And if they're doing that, the whole prosecution is unconstitutional.”
But the problem, Rubenfeld explains, is that it is very hard to prove selective prosecution.
“That gets into the motives inside the head of the prosecutor,” he explained. “Very tough to prove. In fact, some courts have held the only way you can prove it is by coming up with a comparable case, a comparator, a comparable case of somebody else that the district attorney could have prosecuted on very similar facts, but didn't prosecute because the District Attorney liked their politics but didn't like Trump's politics.”
Most in the news media reported that Trump was convicted of falsifying business records, but the only way to make that misdemeanor count as a felony was for it to be in service of some other crime.
“So what was the second crime?” asks Rubenfeld. “Well, that's where things get tricky because the indictment didn't say. The indictment said that he falsified business records to conceal a second crime, but it never said what the second crime was. And to this day, a lot of people are unsure what the jury thought, because what the state did was it did not commit itself to what the second crime might be.”
The District Attorney said the second crime could be a tax violation, campaign finance violation, or election law violation, and by the end of the trial had narrowed it down to the latter.
“But the problem,” explained Rubenfeld, is that “they never said exactly which other statute that was going to be. And to this day, we do not know what the jury was thinking when it convicted him.”
The judge allowed this. Explained Rubenfeld, “the judge told the jury, ‘You know, when it comes to that election law offense, with its second crime, you don't have to be unanimous about that. Two of you could think that Trump was trying to influence an election through a tax violation. Two of you could think that Trump was trying to influence an election by falsifyin other records. And a bunch of other people on the jury could think there was some other violation.’ And the judge said, ‘You don't have to be unanimous about that.’”
Rubenfeld suggests that this was a violation of the Sixth Amendment.
“Under the Sixth Amendment, every criminal defendant has a right to know the charges against him,” he explained. And, crucially, “Where an indictment charges a crime that depends in turn on violation of another statute, the indictment must identify the underlying offense…. Well, that's exactly what this indictment did, charged a crime that depended in turn on the violation of another statute, but it didn't specify or identify the underlying offense. There's a very good argument that that indictment was in violation of federal constitutional law under this Second Circuit case and many other cases that are like it.”
The result is that the trial was similar to a show trial in totalitarian societies.
not sure if I can post links but this is from Michael Shellenberger who explains why the Trump conviction this week could easily be overturned by the supreme court because it didn't adhere to the law:
It has sometimes taken reading as far as unfettered to soak in.. a yes, it, my time, will generally have been held to some standard other than my ‘simple self’.. Thanks, Michael Moore. And regards in the moments forward.
Good Synopsis of the Trial. I have not read your take, on why did it take so long, anywhere else.
Because "the Donald" is a commodity; he is fine with being that. His yadda yadda is bought and sold. There is money to made on this... women understand this method of exchange.
I worked as an organizer in Baltimore for 25 years. One day I found myself complaining to my sister about the out right corruption in one City government leader. I asked, why oh why? Her answer was simple,"Because they can." It stopped me in my tracks.
So New Yorker's. I read your papers in 1980's. I saw the color photos of the Donald and Jeffrey Epstein with Melania look alikes. Please weigh in here. PS: I Love New York.
The problem is the cash starved media - they are once again, as in 2016, giving the goof free publicity.
Not only that, they are delivering a load of bullshit to the public while sidestepping their duty - omitting a whole lot in their reporting - the sins of omission.
I follow emptywheel.net, have done for 8 years - in depth reporting. Boring for a lot of people, but it is there where you will find what media is not reporting, where media's shortcoming is exposed, and their "both sides" bullshit in particular.
As for the former guy and his conviction - a jury found him guilty. It's only news because Americans somehow believe their Presidents and formers are holy cows. They aren't in anywhere but America.
Take a look around the world - former leaders have been charged and convicted of crimes.
Sarcozy comes to mind off hand., there's plenty more. Netanyahu is facing charges, nothing to do with the current crisis.
So, America is a young country, perhaps it is going through growing pains - or perhaps it's lost it's way altogether, stumbling, out of touch with it's founding aspiration.
Hmm, a bit gloomy perhaps? Nothing of the sort!
There is freedom within, there is freedom without
Try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
There's a battle ahead
Many battles are lost
But you'll never see the end of the road
While you're traveling with me
… Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
We know that they won't win :-)
-Crowded House
I'll have to check that site out.
that website emptywheel.net had it wrong on Russiagate - read what Matt Taibbi on substack says about Russiagate to get the truth. I'm a liberal saying this. And Matt is too.
Matt Taibbi? lololol
What was anyone's first clue (it was mine) about the "dossier"?
The very needless salacious content. It appealed to what Russia believed would raise American hackles. It's rather comical actually. - but points to the producer nevertheless - Russia. America got fucked over 10 ways from Sunday. Does anyone really want to argue the fact? What came from that though, cannot be discounted. The Mueller Report (well worth the read when time permits, I grabbed it for 10 US bucks at Target), many charges and convictions. A very dry but compelling inside look and warning.
the Mueller report showed Russiagate to be lacking in anything serious, and that Trump was right that Russiagate was an exaggerated / fake attack on him. I'm a liberal saying this. Doesn't make a difference if you read it if you don't have the surrounding historical context to understand it. That's why you need to read indpendent journalists take on the report.
So you didn't read it Jeff. It's okay, I get it, I'm only halfway through it myself.
Read what I stated again, from the beginning. Sentence 1 and 2.
"Media stars" are the problem. The Tucker Carlsons, the Matt Taibbis. The Pulitzer prize winning WAPO - not what it was is it? The NYT with it's Maggie Haberman type "insiders". They are favoured for a reason.
I've never seen a comment on Emptywheel from Matt Taibbi - he hasn't got the guts to go there.
instead of reading what you think is right, try reading what I think is correct,
namely Matt Taibbi and Michael Shellenberger. Look at Russiagate and the latest Trump conviction and how Nato attempt to convert Ukraine to a Nato country triggered Putin to invade Ukraine. If you immediatley say Ukraine has a right to join Nato then you are not trying hard enough to find the right info.
Do you get it now? Ukraine as an EU member?
Do you think Putin would invade an EU member country?
You bought Putin's impossible argument (Ukraine NATO member), while ignoring the actual possibility (Ukraine an EU member country).
Like many fools you can't see what's right in front of your eyes.
no, Putin said if we put Nato on his border then that was a red line because 3 times foreign armies attacked Russia through Ukraine (Napolean, World War 1 and 2). You are a lightweight and I shouldn't be wasting my time but maybe someone else will read this and learn.
You're the lightweight by the way, swallowing Putin's BS.
Try reading what he writes in his "essays" - wackadoodle "history" - the man is a crackpot.
You bought the red herring my friend.
You bought the Imperialist's BS.
Yes, an Imperialist.
You are reciting a Kremlin script, ignoring Ukraine's contemporary history, it's aspirations and it's sovereignty.
Time to change the script bud, you and he are fooling no one.
Nato is on Russia's border through Finland.
I'm not trying to win in an argument with you Jeff. I just want you to expand your knowledge, and if I've come across as aggressive in that it's only because I care about what you think about this. Each drop in the ocean makes an ocean.
By the way, your Strawman argument? I never said Ukraine has a right to join NATO, and so, you've given yourself away haven't you?
You've bought Putin's red herring, and are now arguing on his behalf.
No, Ukraine isn't now and never was going to be admitted into NATO - look at the latest members accepted - it wasn't a shoe in for them.
You've bought Putin's bullshit excuse for invading Ukraine, a red herring that no one with any knowledge of Ukraine and history buys.
What tipped the invader was Ukraine's aspiration to join the European Union.
The previous president of Ukraine reneged on his promise to the electorate to join the EU under Putin's pressure - that tipped the EuroMaidan protests, and here we are today. Why do you think Putin invaded Ukraine? It was his last kick at the can bud.
listen to General Douglas MacGregor, hero from 1993 Iraq war. I'm repeating what he and many others say.
I believe my own eyes and ears, and I'm also a student of History.
We are not in the Iraq war, which my country totally rejected btw. We are not in the Vietnam war, nor are we in the Cold War post WW2.
We are in the here and now, nowhere else.
Ukraine is a sovereign country, and it's aspirations lean to Europe and the West. This is their choice.
Thanks Mike for your words and yeah we must keep our sense of humor. We all love clowns but this one is dangerous. How can I believe in a country that lets a convicted felon run for president?
I love listening to to you Mike! Thanks so much for your podcasts that help me through my days
Vote BLUE, folks!! It's all we can do now.
no, vote for a true patriot, RFK jr who will truly get rid of corruption in America.
If you're a Trumper who isn't wild about Trump, he may be your man.
Thanks Mike. All I can say is "stupid is a stupid does". How someone soooo stupid got to be president (of course - the backlash to having a black man for president) in the first place is beyond this woman's comprehension. May they all be defeated at the ballot box. 12 jurors did what Republican senators refused to do. I visualize sticking a pin in all of them - and watching them deflate to nothing.
But division is their game and we must stand united - for democracy and our better angels....and a world where NO ONE fears for their life for any reason.
As a native New Yorker, I can testify to the sad accuracy of Michael's informative mini-bio of the Trump crime family. We grew up with daily reports of mafia and gang activities (... "the paper holds their folded faces to the floor/ and every day the paper boy brings more ..."). Among my neighbors, there was an unhealthy, obsession with Donnie's arc of "success" and romantic conquests - with endless sequels. He was simultaneously a joke and a member of an elite class we would never share. Not much has changed - except the joke is now on us.
Thanks Michael for the respite from wanting to curl up in a ball. Mitch McConnell's op-ed in the NY Times today just about sent me over the edge, saying we need to avoid the mistakes of 1930s Germany, while he didn't stop and still supports Frankenstein's Monster. I was trying to explain to my teenage son what living through the 80s in proximity to NYC and Donald Trump was like. I also had him Google "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" with Robin Leach, which sent him into fits of laughter. But we all need to band together and vote for Joe Biden - and NO, I don't want to hear about voting for a 3rd party candidate who, if they'd like to create a viable platform, needs to start the work a good decade from the ground up before they plan to run. Like it or not, mathematically, only one of two people is going to be President, Joe Biden or Donald Trump. You may not love everything Joe Biden does, but he is decent, kind, and empathetic. Even under terrible circumstances, President Biden tries to do the right thing, and he certainly stands up for the Rule of Law and the dignity of the Office of the President. The other is evil and a danger to the very foundation of our nation. VOTE and get your friends to vote like our lives depend on it, because they very well may.
Wait. Mitch McConnell said we should avoid the mistakes of 1930s Germany???
Yes - Most of the Times commenters rightly pointed out the ridiculousness of him saying this.
Michael,
I love your 70% voter base stats. I feel better about 2024.
Great podcast about Trump’s verdict and crime history. But your continued anti-Biden / Gaza War Stance are leaving the Trump presidency doors open. Protest if you must. But promote votes for Biden. Or we make Gaza and Russia worse with a Trump presidency.
I agree with you and others of Bibi's criminal actions. What I don't understand is why you give Hamas a free pass. Hamas used international aid to build a web of tunnels under the city. They started a war without stocking food and medical supplies in these tunnels many of which connect under schools and hospitals. In all the pictures that I have seen, there is not one woman with a strand of hair showing, or an elbow, much less an ankle while the men wear tee shirts. The large population of children suggests that there is no reproductive choice, as every country where women have a choice have fewer children. Women were terrorized in Gaza long before Israel attacked.
Thank you. I cannot make it without you.
Maybe when Trump worked for NBC, it would have made sense to hide his Stormy affair, but time has proven that running for president is different. The voters don't care about affairs or anything sleezy he does.
I'm a liberal - but from what I read, the charges that lead to a conviction against trump have not been prosecuted in NY before. And then there was something about the jury not needing to be unanimous? can someone else fill in the details? I think this was a political prosecution that would never have been applied to any other politician. What about all the lies regarding hunter biden's laptop? wasn't that worse that what Trump did with Stormy Daniels? Because hiding that had a far larger impact on the election. And again, I'm a liberal saying this. Does any one else agree?
"I'm a liberal - but..." Yeah. Sure you are.
I really am, but I'm supporting RFK jr for president.
I recognize the corruption that seems to be everywhere in politics, corporations etc.
I can’t support RFK. His anti vax stance is a no go for me.
Yep. The candidate who will take votes away from Trump. Go for it.
the intelligence agencies have taken over most of media and has also taken over most of both political parties (dems and republicans),
but they haven't taken over RFK jr.
Our long term health depends on independent politicians not beholden to corrupt leaders
if we let them, they will injure and kill us with mrna bird flu vaccines and ruin the economy by printing money until we are too poor to respond effectively.
You may have been a liberal back when you campaigned for Elizabeth Warren, but the stories you're telling now are straight out of the MAGA playbook.
Song for the day....
Please don't say sorry
Presuming a respect for what you say
If in your heart you mean it
Then you'll understand me feeling
You must prove it; sign the check without delay
Most humbly yours, four hundred years back pay
I'm not begging charity
Don't confuse the things I say
Give me what belongs to me
Give me what belongs to me
Just don't say sorry
As if that can excuse this tyranny
No value in your talking
Money speaks and bullshit's walking
Round in circles re-inventing history
Trying to erase our memory
I'm not begging
If you say sorry
Can I assume you've realized the shame
The seeds of your oppression
Fall and ripen with aggression
You can't hold us any longer with your chains
Time to compensate us for our claims
Don't bother wi' no sorry
Don't bother wi' delay
A four hundred years
Is not just the other day
I'm not begging charity
Don't confuse up your mind
Payment overdue
Fe a long long time
You come a we gate
No bother hesitate
You tek away we tings
Like a damn pirate
UB40
There have been many prosecutions of falsifying business records in NY and the jury had to be unanimous on those. What made these felonies is that they were falsified to cover up another crime. The jury did not have to be unanimous in their conclusions of the other crimes. The other crimes were the unlawful means Trump used to interfere in the election. The law is the law and that part was not up for debate by the jury. To understand this better, sign up for Civil Discourse by Joyce Vance, also on Substack. What about Hunter’s laptop? There’s no evidence of any crime on there. And what on his laptop is more disgusting than Trump cheating on his wife with sex workers while she is pregnant/nursing?
you are saying falsifying business records ... for political gain or just financial gain?
Others have said that this type of prosecution against Trump has not been done for any other politician except Trump. Am I right?
All sorts of former intelligence officials said the laptop was Russian disninformation, but it wasn't. That was intentional lying/ interference by former government officials.
quoting from internet:
Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say
More than 50 former intelligence officials signed a letter casting doubt on the provenance of a New York Post story on the former vice president’s son.By NATASHA BERTRAND
10/19/2020 10:30 PM EDT
More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letter outlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”
The letter, signed on Monday, centers around a batch of documents released by the New York Post last week that purport to tie the Democratic nominee to his son Hunter’s business dealings. Under the banner headline “Biden Secret E-mails,” the Post reported it was given a copy of Hunter Biden’s laptop hard drive by President Donald Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani, who said he got it from a Mac shop owner in Delaware who also alerted the FBI.
I never brought up “mainstream media”. As a reminder, we were discussing the lack of evidence for any crimes committed by Joe Biden. From any media source at all. It sounds like you aren’t going to be happy with anything I say. My last word is my final recommendation- Heather Cox Richardson, Letters from an American. You will love her- all of her letters are backed up by real sources. Good day to you!
I'm a liberal who went door to door campaigning for both Hillary and Elizabeth Warren (no lie, I have emails and documents to prove it), Heather Cox Richardson might be an interesting read, but is she addressing legitimate criticisms of the prosecution of Donald Trump? I doubt it from what little I have read. I'm sure the part you are missing are facts that only independent media can give you. It takes a while to absorb it but it can be done. Start with all the terrible Covid policies, the Ukraine war that was triggered by NATO and the fact that the USA has huge leverage over Israel to stop the Gaza war. Throw in the terrible printing of money (look at a graph of USA deby by year, 30+ trillion) and then maybe you will be angry as I am.
we are being hurt by monopolistic companies and corrupted politicians, I notice you just want to focus on mainstream saying there is no crimes by Joe Biden while I'm trying to give you the big picture of corruption. How about this, Biden pushing the Iraq war and the Ukraine War are crimes. Are hundreds of thousands dead a big enough crime to convince you? Add to that his lack of trying to stop the Gaza War (don't even try to say he did try to stop it, the USA has huge leverage over Israel with the weapons we *give* them). Do you agree?
He falsified them for political gain and that is election interference. I don’t know how many people have committed this crime but they should all be prosecuted. So who is responsible for the intelligence officers sharing their concerns about the computer story being disinformation? Don’t forget who was president in 2020. Not Joe Biden.
the corrupt intelligence officials (who are warmongers) are responsible
so Hunter's business dealing were hidden from the American people by lies of government officials,
how does that compare to paying off a mistress to be quiet? I say the mistriss payment is small potatos. Whereas the business dealings with Ukraine and Hunter are worse since they might have a (maybe small) *negative* role in the Ukraine war.
And nothing was hidden. It was suppressed by Twitter for about 24 hours, not by any government entity.
the mainstream media message for many months if if not years, was the laptop was russian disinfo, what are you talking about? there are (at least) potential crimes on it, that isn't election interference?
There is no evidence of any crimes. I don’t know what else to tell you.
Again, there has been no crime committed by Joe Biden. I also encourage you to subscribe to The Status Quo by Jay Kuo. A lot of confusion can be cleared up with legitimate news sources.
biden was a huge proponent of the Iraq war, and now the Ukraine war which was triggered by *Nato* trying to convert Ukraine to a Nato member. Please look up and understand that last sentence. It is important. Listen to Iraq War hero Gen. Douglas MacGregor, a USA tank commander in the first Iraq gulf war. He says *NATO* triggered the Ukraine war by pushing up against Russias border - Nato should *not* have done that. the many warmongers in the USA profited handsomely in all these wars that they *wanted*. Iraq, Afghanistan, Ukraine etc.
I'm a liberal, but....
Bogus.
quoting from the article by Shellenberger:
Rubenfeld is a law professor and does not work for the Trump campaign. He is most famous for his liberal positions on issues like affirmative action and same-sex marriage. And Rubenfeld stressed that he wasn’t giving advice but rather explaining the constitutional issues at stake
Rosenfeld expressed concern over three potential violations of the Constitution by the New York state court. First, a felony conviction could cause “irreparable harm” to Trump and his effort to become president. Second, it could have been a case of “selective prosecution” by Bragg, who campaigned on convicting Trump. Third, the court may have violated Trump’s Sixth Amendment rights, which is that the accused must know what they are being accused of.
Most people are familiar with the selective prosecution argument.
“The whole point of the prosecution, people say, is to undermine Trump's chances of being president,” notes Rubenfeld. “Well, if that's true, does that make the prosecution unconstitutional? Yes, it would. That's called, in legal terms, selective prosecution. The state cannot come after you with a criminal prosecution because of hostility toward or in retaliation against your political activity. That's unconstitutional. And if they're doing that, the whole prosecution is unconstitutional.”
But the problem, Rubenfeld explains, is that it is very hard to prove selective prosecution.
“That gets into the motives inside the head of the prosecutor,” he explained. “Very tough to prove. In fact, some courts have held the only way you can prove it is by coming up with a comparable case, a comparator, a comparable case of somebody else that the district attorney could have prosecuted on very similar facts, but didn't prosecute because the District Attorney liked their politics but didn't like Trump's politics.”
continued:
Most in the news media reported that Trump was convicted of falsifying business records, but the only way to make that misdemeanor count as a felony was for it to be in service of some other crime.
“So what was the second crime?” asks Rubenfeld. “Well, that's where things get tricky because the indictment didn't say. The indictment said that he falsified business records to conceal a second crime, but it never said what the second crime was. And to this day, a lot of people are unsure what the jury thought, because what the state did was it did not commit itself to what the second crime might be.”
The District Attorney said the second crime could be a tax violation, campaign finance violation, or election law violation, and by the end of the trial had narrowed it down to the latter.
“But the problem,” explained Rubenfeld, is that “they never said exactly which other statute that was going to be. And to this day, we do not know what the jury was thinking when it convicted him.”
The judge allowed this. Explained Rubenfeld, “the judge told the jury, ‘You know, when it comes to that election law offense, with its second crime, you don't have to be unanimous about that. Two of you could think that Trump was trying to influence an election through a tax violation. Two of you could think that Trump was trying to influence an election by falsifyin other records. And a bunch of other people on the jury could think there was some other violation.’ And the judge said, ‘You don't have to be unanimous about that.’”
Rubenfeld suggests that this was a violation of the Sixth Amendment.
“Under the Sixth Amendment, every criminal defendant has a right to know the charges against him,” he explained. And, crucially, “Where an indictment charges a crime that depends in turn on violation of another statute, the indictment must identify the underlying offense…. Well, that's exactly what this indictment did, charged a crime that depended in turn on the violation of another statute, but it didn't specify or identify the underlying offense. There's a very good argument that that indictment was in violation of federal constitutional law under this Second Circuit case and many other cases that are like it.”
The result is that the trial was similar to a show trial in totalitarian societies.
not sure if I can post links but this is from Michael Shellenberger who explains why the Trump conviction this week could easily be overturned by the supreme court because it didn't adhere to the law:
https://open.substack.com/pub/public/p/supreme-court-may-prevent-irreparable?r=pauaz&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
No, no one else agrees
It has sometimes taken reading as far as unfettered to soak in.. a yes, it, my time, will generally have been held to some standard other than my ‘simple self’.. Thanks, Michael Moore. And regards in the moments forward.
Con Con Don. Gottian angel of the accumulati/manipulati unpubliCON privatyranny class.
Good Synopsis of the Trial. I have not read your take, on why did it take so long, anywhere else.
Because "the Donald" is a commodity; he is fine with being that. His yadda yadda is bought and sold. There is money to made on this... women understand this method of exchange.
I worked as an organizer in Baltimore for 25 years. One day I found myself complaining to my sister about the out right corruption in one City government leader. I asked, why oh why? Her answer was simple,"Because they can." It stopped me in my tracks.
So New Yorker's. I read your papers in 1980's. I saw the color photos of the Donald and Jeffrey Epstein with Melania look alikes. Please weigh in here. PS: I Love New York.
Convictocracy. That said, in keeping with Matthew chapter 5, verse 44, I pray for Donald Trump's soul but not his ambitions.